| |
Subject |
Author |
Date Posted |
Forum
|
 |
RE: GVWR vs. GAWR
socal is correct.
The truck is certified at whatever GVWR or GAWR is on its cert placard. Each has its own job.
I found this on OOIDA web site.
Manufacturer Specifies GAWR and GVWR
(Letter to Heavy & Specialized Carriers Conference of American Trucking Associations):
“….it is the manufacturer who specifies the values (GAWR and GVWR), and he is free to specify whatever values he himself decides are correct. Both NHTSA in its compliance tests, and the Bureau of Motor Carrier Safety on the road, will judge the vehicle on the basis of the values assigned. Therefore it is in the interest of the manufacturer to assign values which accurately reflect the load-bearing ability of the vehicle and its suspension.”
The Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) and the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) are defined by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) as determinations made by the manufacturer. (49 CFR 571.3). As a general matter NHTSA finds that the manufacturer is most familiar with the complexities of this product and is most qualified to assign these values.”
Now for your particular vehicle I would contact your truck manufacture as to why they chose those numbers. Don't hold your breath for a answer.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/14/09 07:55pm |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: "How-to" to properly weigh a rig
The reason the GVWR is lower than the sum of the axle capacities is because it is limited by the vehicle frame. Yes the axles can carry more weight but the frame cannot.
I guess the manufacture looks at it diffrently as the manufactures certification tag has GVWR and GAWR.
Axle and tires are limited by the manufacture for the spring package they use on a specific size truck.
The frame on a 2500 Dodge, as a example, is the same frame as the 3500 SRW and DRW trucks according to Dodge Body Builders Guide. I would think Ford and GM 2500/3500 truck frames are the same also. Older trucks may have had different frames.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/14/09 06:48am |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: Is your furnace noisy
We lived in a 27' RK 5er one winter while the house was being built. The furnace was extremmly noisey. The motor had sealed bearing. The problem was it fan sat just behind the kitchen cabinet with nothing but a grill between you and the fan. You could see the fan cage with the grill removed.
I noticed it was open under the cabinets on the floor all around heater and had no partitions. It was open down the side and across the rear kitchen. I cut a piece of cardboard to cover the grill from the back which pulled air in all down the side and across the rear of the bottom kitchen cabinets. I made sure the blower had more than enough return air. That cut noise about 80 percent.
Now if your hearing a viberation it could be bearings but if its just fan noise its normal. Roof mount A/C with a direct return have the same situation.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/14/09 06:35am |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: Adjusting Pin Box?
Nothing wrong with redrilling a pin box to the mounting frame. As long as the bolt pattern spread and edge distance is the same or better than OEM it works fine.
Bought a new 5er in '84. It came with a 26" extended pin box which was unusual for that era. My truck was the standard 8' bed which had the front of the 5er about 10" in front of the tailgate.
The manufacture gave me a zero extended pin box but it was three weeks before the dealer could get to it. I drill the 6 on each side 1/2" bolt holes myself.
I used the trailer 8 more years and double towed a 18' 3500 lb bass boat behind the 5er.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/14/09 06:07am |
Fifth-Wheels
|
 |
RE: "How-to" to properly weigh a rig
Trucks are weighed by each axle. The trucks GVWR is only used to find combined weights in the case of truck pulling a trailer. A GN or 5ers hitch weight will just about all be over the trucks rear axles so its pertinent to weigh the front and rear axle seperatly.
The 6084 is a 2500 GM RAWR number.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/13/09 06:40pm |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: I'm out of touch... what 5th wheels are the best these days?
Which is best ?? Its whatever brand the poster owns.
I would look at each manufacture web site for the latest offerings. Models change from year to year. See the RV manufactures
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/13/09 01:40pm |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: "How-to" to properly weigh a rig
Some RV folks haul per the trucks GVWR which is fine but its only about 80 percent of the trucks total capacity.
Jim,
Am I missing something here?
GVWR is the max (rating) that should be seen by your truck if you add up all the weights from scales under each wheel. Where does 80% come from?
I have always viewed GVWR as the vertical weight rating (haul ability) and GCVWR as the horizontal weight rating (tow ability) of a truck.
The vertical GVWR has mostly to do with safety (haul ability).
The horizontal GCVWR has mostly to do with the drive train (tow ability).
I keep seeing your posts indicating 6048# RAW (? or so) for the Ford trucks and think I can get a much larger rig...but I dont quite understand. Any point that supports from the ground is a weigh-point - hooked up or not hooked up.
This applet wont do magic but will calculate with every value you provide as long as there are no blanks. O's are fine.
http://members.cox.net/bruce.wittmeier/technical/TruckTrailerScale.html
Reread my post and you will see where I said I use the trucks GAWR's for loading. I hauled combined commercially legally for over 11 years with these size trucks. The truck manufactures GVWR is used for a GCW for hauling commercial combined loads. GVWR doesn't carry weight.
The 80 percent is something I've seen on this web. Never heard of loading a truck up to 80 only percent till I came on this web in '03.
Which is fine and is well under the truck max capacities.
Don't know what the 6048 number is but it sounds like the 2500 GN 6084 RAWR.
My trucks 9000 GVWR is only about 80 percent of its 10950 lb GAWRs. Other size LDT's are simular.
It has a 6000 RAWR. My truck rear unladin weight is 2780 lbs which leaves me 3220 lb for a max axle payload. Keep in mind the truck manufacture certifies our trucks up to its GAWR's on the certification label (door tag).
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/13/09 01:26pm |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: Do you need cabover struts?
Are cabover struts really needed? I have seen some with and some without. I have a F450 Crew Cab and the TC will not come past the roof of the truck so the struts would be very short if only going from the roof to the TC.
As others have said if your combo cab benifit from struts they will help. Not all rigs need struts.
My 1st TC was a new '64 on a '58 3/4 ton Jimmy long bed that required struts. Many TC's of that era had long heavy overheads which can create a need for struts.
My next TC was a new 8.5' '68 on a '64 chevy long bed. It also benifited from struts.
My last TC was a new '72 model 9.5' on a new Chevy Super Cheyenne 3/4 ton and struts were needed also.
There were very few extended cab/crew cab trucks back then as most were standard cab/long beds which had the front of the TC overhead out over the hood of the truck which makes a huge wind sail and its own handling/lifting the TC problems.
Will you need them for your F450/TC combo ?? If the overhead has lots of movement (up and down) and you can feel that movement then struts can stop/dampen that motion.
Most folks used struts back then and I never heard or saw a truck or TC damaged from their use. I'm not current on the TC world so maybe the newer gen folks that are current have seen damage from strut use.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/13/09 08:12am |
Truck Campers
|
|
RE: Crazy progressions?
The usual WW II tents that folks used after the war in the late '40s.
A progression of tents/station wagons/a panel truck/pickups with tarps with my parents til '60 when I left home and started my own familly.
My first RV was a used '64 truck camper/then a new '68 truck camper/then a new 9.5' truck camper in '72.
A TT in '78.
The first 5er in '84/then another in '94 till the present '97 in sig.
I think were going back to a 8' pop up TC pretty quick. Much easier getting around and setting up.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/13/09 06:45am |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: Notched "gate" explanation?
I have a Custom Flow steel 5er/GN tail gate. I sprayed it color matced to my truck. I've had many different trucks over the years and pulling a GN or just the 5er makes it handy.
As others have pointed out air turbulance in the bed is a problem with a stock tailgate with a 5er. Zero problems with the GN trailers.
I had over 600 mile a week commute for over 30 years. I've ran diesels/big blocks/smallblocks and even the old inline sixes in the older trucks on that long hiway commute. No difference in mpgs on any of the trucks loaded or empty with V gate or stock gate or no gate.
I have noticed my current truck in sig handles/tracks better when not towing in strong sidewinds with the stock gate on vs the flow through.
You can't beat having a V gate when you use a trailer as much as I do. Even the RV.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/13/09 06:22am |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: "How-to" to properly weigh a rig
I use my small town platform feed store/mill scales. The scales are open 24/7 and no one else is waiting.
I haul per the trucks FAWR/RAWR door tag numbers. I run the empty trucks front axle on first then the rear axles. Subtract the front from the combined gives me the rear axle weight.
Repeat the process when hooked to the trailer or whatever your hauling. Then pull forward for truck and trailer combined weight.
Thats hauling per the trucks GAWR capacities. Some RV folks haul per the trucks GVWR which is fine but its only about 80 percent of the trucks total capacity.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/13/09 05:49am |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: Fifth Wheel Hitch Selection
I have yet to read a post where the fifth wheel was dropped from a Pullrite.
There has been a few posts on this web and a article in Trailer Life mag about the Superglide dumping the 5er. If I remember right they were due to lack of proper maintenance and more importantly the proper lube.
Here's one from the toy hauler forum that ran for a while. superglide drop.
If I felt I needed a auto sliding hitch I would get the Superglide.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/12/09 08:05am |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: 19.5" wheels
For those of you who have made the upgrade, what improvement (if any) did you see in the stability of your rig (truck and trailer). I suspect the biggest difference would be seen in those who have bumper pull trailers, but I'm just guessing.
from a RV standpoint the folks that would get the most benifit from a 19.5 wheel/tire upgrade would be the truck camper folks. Some TCs can be in the 4k-5k-6k lb range.
A 5th wheel trailer that may have 3500-4500 lbs of pin weight may be in the 15k-20k GVWR range which is in DRW trucks range. Less "push" issues. A 2500 or a 3500 SRW may benifit from the upgrade.
Bumper pull RV trailers simply don't have enough hitch weight for the need of 19.5 wheels load capacity. Now if your into a heavy implement trailer with a pintle hook up on the bumper then those 19.5 wheels may be of some benifit on a SRW truck.
Check out the truck camper forum as many have made the upgrade.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/12/09 07:45am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: truck size
We have a toyhauler forum that will have more input on particular units than the 5th wheel trailer forum. Check the TH forum out.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/12/09 06:36am |
Toy Haulers
|
|
RE: How important is that sticker on the door?
Thanks again for all the replies, you have all been lot`s of help. Kaydeejay, thanks for looking into it for me. You have pointed me in the right direction and I will replace it. I just want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row when I sell this thing.
I saw this from another web site. It from Canada, BC but the thread says it covers all of Canada.
(16)
How big can my pick-up camper or RV trailer be on my ½, ¾, or 1 tonne pickup be? Do I need brakes? Do I need a special driver’s license?
The camper, when loaded on to the pickup or when you tow a trailer behind the pickup, can not exceed the manufacturer “Gross Vehicle Weight Rating” (GVWR) or the “Gross Axle Weight Rating” (GAWR). The ratings can be found on the driver’s side door post.
I would think your province MVO or RCMP or who ever enforces your weights might be interested in why the numbers are missing or unreadible.
In my state for example its a misdemeanor to:
. It shall be unlawful for any person to:
A " Knowingly and intentionally destroy, remove, cover, alter or deface, or cause to be destroyed, covered, removed, altered or defaced the trim tag plate of a motor vehicle."
C "In addition to any other civil remedy available, a person d efrauded as a result of a violation of this act may bring a civil action against any person who knowingly violated this act regardless of whether that person has been convicted of a violation of this act. A person defrauded as a result of a violation of this act may recover treble their actual compensatory damages. In any action brought pursuant to this subsection, the court may award reasonable costs, including costs of expert witnesses, and attorney fees to the prevailing party."
The commercial side here in the states use the door tag more than non commercial operators such as RV's.
Stop by a well established truck dealer and see what their experience has been with your particular problem. Also your provinces DMV should have more input.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/11/09 08:17pm |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: 15" wheels to 16" wheels
Suspension blocks for a trailer isn't a good idea and is it recommended by trailer manufactures. Trailers tires side scrubbing adds much more stress to the trailers suspension and especially longer U bolts.
Are your springs on top of the axle ??
The last two 5ers (11200 GVWR and a 9800 GVWR) I've owned came with ST 225/7515 D tires. I don't use ST tires plus the D tires were marginal at best.
One trailer I added heavier/longer adjustable spring hangers to gain height. The other trailer I had a 2x2 inch square tubing added to the bottom of the main frame tubes for 2" more for clearance.
My present 5er has 2.5 to 3 inch clearance at the top of the tires. Both trailers had the standard leaf spring suspension.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/11/09 06:33pm |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: New Ram's weight limits
Keep the Chevy Duramax/allison it is all the TV you need.
Good call - 90% of hot shot RV haulers are using the Chevy 2500HD with D/A. Many of these guys are way over 1 million miles on their trucks.
Please provide some proof of this absurd statement!
Yeah, one CA LTL haulers hot shot web administrator has a clickie on the low 8250 RAWR GM put on their 3500 DRW trucks.
Ford still has the most custom haul/commercial/stock haulers and trucks used in construction with Dodge a close 2nd in this area.
Fords 9000 axle rating and Dodges 9750 axle rating make them the prefered equipment for max axle loads.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/11/09 06:38am |
Tow Vehicles
|
|
RE: Who makes a Lite-Weight 5W TH ?
check out the RV manufactures for the latest offerings.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/11/09 06:05am |
Toy Haulers
|
|
RE: Picked up fiver and made 1st mistake
I keep my '97 16k manual slider handle mechanism and the slider portion (rollers/roller pins/tubes sprayed with a silicone lube. Works easily at any angle and doesn't collect dust/etc. Don't baby the handle (or try to break it off) when going from tow to manuever position.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/11/09 05:39am |
Fifth-Wheels
|
|
RE: need help from weight police
Yeah, those truckers trying to make schedule and money and were out on a lark. LOL. I do both. Just clear the pump ramp when you hang the pump up. Then pay/and get your pop/coffee/sam'inch/etc. Even a few truckers are rude at times and sit on the pumps till they do their inside duty especially if a RVers or LTL hauler is behind them.
You may want to check a local feed store/grain elevator/dump/etc that has a set of scales. Generally their not busy.
The small town near me has a feed mill and platform scales. The scales are open 24/7. Just pull up on the scales and walk over to the stores front window for the LED readout of what ever your weighing. No charge and no rush.
If the trucks rear unladin axle weight is known its not necessary to go to the trouble of unhooking on the scales to weigh the trailer.
|
JIMNLIN
|
11/11/09 05:25am |
Tow Vehicles
|
